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Talk:M52B Body Armor
Untitled Isn't that image from Halo: Combat Evolved? --Dragonclaws(talk) 20:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC) Ya it should be halo 2 armour for the source of this info is from halo 2 on boxs.--The Chazz 20:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC) Actually,that is the halo 2 marine armor.--Odst276 05:28, 12 June 2009 (UTC) Armor Variations The armor crates in Halo 3 are listed as being the same as they were in Halo 3, and though the article suggests that it is a retroactive continuity mechanism, the boxes still show the armor worn by the marines in Halo 2. If the change in armor from game-to-game is a retcon, it is quite haphazard. The graphical and art change from Halo 2 to Halo 3 is substantially less than Halo 1 to 3, and given the presence of slip-ups here and there, it might be too hasty to call it a retcon. However, if you look at the Halo 2 marine armor, it looks very light compared to its Halo 3 iteration. The marines that assist you in Halo 2 that wear the armor are not many in number, and the number wearing the Halo 3 version are more numerous. If anything, the armor in Halo 3 and ODST is likely a more recent variant of the armor worn by the Marines, and the ones worn in Halo 2 are an older version. Even with Earth having a concentration of high-quality combat material, its not going to be possible for everyone to have the best equipment. It is quite likely that it would be a mix of newer and older equipment, and keeping somewhat older but still useful items makes perfect sense. Given thet UNSC's relatively impoverished state, this is very likely. From this, it is possible to suggest that the Marines in Halo 2 happened to have lighter armor than other units and regiments, depending on where they were and what was in the inventory. In the defense of Earth, it is likely that all useful military items were used, including lighter armor sets. Don't forget that the majority of the Marines wearing the Halo 2 version were on the In Amber Clad, with some on the Cairo and sprinkled around New Mombasa. Given the almost certainly varying levels of light, moderate, and heavy-duty equipment used by UNSC forces, it seems rather extreme and hasty to assume that all marine units wore the exact same armor without any bit of variation, rather allowing such a likely possibility to exist. Look at real military forces, including our own; there is a wide diversity of attire and armor sets, some more up-to-date than others, and a lot of older and nearly obsolete items as well. The UNSC, given how it is presented, would be no different. So that item in the trivia section should either be removed, or labeled as having no source, since it is largely speculation. --Exalted Obliteration 02:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC) :So not a retcon, just recycling. Makes sense. I agree, but should one of us just strike that bit from the Trivia section or wait for more opinions? DavidJCobb 02:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC) ::I agree completely. As much as people talk about "artistic licensing" and "graphical improvements" and whatnot, I'm still fairly certain that this armor article should only designate the armor that its canonically shown to represent: the Halo 2 version of the marine armor. Exalted Obliteration is completely right when he says that military divisions would use a wide variety of armor and equipment. We hold canon sacred at Halopedia, so can't we just go with the safe bet and separate the articles? --Nerfherder1428 15:19, October 3, 2009 (UTC) :::Splitting done: There's now a main article for the Marine combat uniform in general:UNSC Marine Corps Battle Dress Uniform. --Jugus 09:40, October 19, 2009 (UTC) Good move. Also, I was in a Barnes & Noble on Sunday, and I noticed that the Halo Encyclopedia was available. I looked inside hoping for clarification on subjects such as this, which it failed to provide for the most part. However, after giving it some thought, terms like "M52B" or just M52 are probably describing specific models of a armor set series manufactured for the UNSC, rather than mere artistic updates and "mapping to advancements in graphics and rendering", which is the case for the MJOLNIR MK VI's minor changes to the gauntlets and other armor pieces. But such visual updates are minor to moderate and best. The differences between the Halo 2 and 3 armor are striking. The former provides less coverage, as if it was intended to emphasize agility and flexibility rather than direct damage resistance. Perhaps it is a peacetime or light-combat version of the M52, CH252, and V7G7 armor set? The Halo 1, Halo Wars, Halo 3, and Halo 3: ODST versions however, are heavier and provide more coverage while maintaining agility and flexibility, with the Halo 3 and ODST version being the best one out of the whole series, perhaps. If you look at the armor in chronological order, the armor sets worn by the Marines change, as if it is developed over time, from an emphasis on heavier materials and construction to a balanced type as seen in the final months in the war. Regardless of the truth, it is wise to remember that the development, deployment, etc. of the armor series worn by the Marines has not been documented at all, so it seems hasty to dismiss it all as mere aesthetic changes and upgrades. Though they are a significant part of the story, it seems unlikely to be the entirety of it unless that is the official position of 343 Industries and the artists at Bungie. --Exalted Obliteration 01:49, October 20, 2009 (UTC) Linear, Rigid, and Hasty Conclusions In the trivia section, someone wrote this: "It's unknown if the changes from Halo 2 to Halo 3 and Halo 3: ODST should be considered canon or simply an aesthetic change. The latter is more likely, as in Halo 3: ODST, the Marines in New Mombasa wear the Halo 3 version, despite the events taking place during Halo 2." Though there is irrefutable evidence of aesthetic updating, such as the Elites, Grunts, Jackals, Drones, and Brutes along with the armor they wear, not to mention the MJOLNIR Mk VI and the Arbiter's armor, it still seems that at least in this case, it seems too sweeping and hyperbolic of a conclusion to make on the limited information that is publicly available. At least functionally it is true, but canonically, are we supposed to assume that the armor worn in all Halo games chronologically preceding Halo 3 doesn't exist, and that only the Halo 3 and ODST versions are correct? That would mean that the armor in question never changed for over 32 years in any way, shape, and form, with no variations or advancements whatsoever. That is simply ridiculous at best, and rigid-minded at worst. Also, just because the armor of certain Marines in certain parts of New Mombasa in certain places and times such as in Halo 3: ODST was different from those seen in Halo 2 is hardly automatic, absolute proof that every single Marine everywhere wore the exact same armor and equipment at every single moment of the entire event. Don't forget that in Halo 2, BR55's, M6C's, etc. were used, but immediately and concurrently there and elsewhere, MA5C's, Spartan Lasers, M6S's, and M7S's were used, but not at the same area and the same time. Also note that in ODST, no BR55's aside from the NMPD officer struck down before Romeo's injury were used. See my point? Differences in deployment of personnel, equipment, etc. are inevitable in a warzone, especially in one as ruined and impoverished as the UNSC stronghold of the Sol system and Earth. In the real world, military units have variable inventories of new and older material, including specialized ones and even those that are of personal preferrence. Some soldiers may prefer lighter armor or simpler versions, or are stuck with older or inappropriate sets; some soldiers to this day ar still stuck with antiquated equipment and weapons from the Vietnam war or Desert Storm, and some don't even have radios. If this is the case in the real world, why would Halo be any different? Examples of what I mean can be seen in the phasing out of different machines such as the Cyclops exoskeleton, the MA5B being replaced by the MA5C, Mk IV in favor of the Mk V and finally the MK VI, for instance. As I pointed out before, different regiments, units, etc. would have different loadouts and material, especialy if they are from different parts of the world and they are deployed in a swift fashion, which was the norm during the Covenant siege of New Mombasa and the rest of the planet. All material, new or old, light or heavy, semi-apppropiate or appropriate, would be used in the rush to defend Earth. Would there truly be enough time, then or beforehand, to outfit every single unit and soldier with the best of everything? Unlikely. To be safe, I have marked the quote as needing verification, for I am aware of no absolute, irrefutable statement or other canonically relevant source verifying that assertion. Even if it is based on existing information and logical deductions, it is still not sufficient to make such as sweeping assertion as was made here. More evidence is needed, which so far has not been provided. --Exalted Obliteration 02:37, October 20, 2009 (UTC) :I agree, there are many varieations between military units. For example, Halo 2 marines might be Mechinized infantry versis Halo 3 is mainline Infantry (NOTE, this is an EXAMPLE, not fact or theory) I say the "Varification needed" is the right why to go.--'CR8ZY-ArAB' 02:49, October 20, 2009 (UTC) :I see your point. About the Marines wearing a variety of equipment. But really, we can't assume that all aesthetic changes are canon. The developers do it all the time just to make the stuff look better. A good example of radical change with no explanation is the New Mombasa from H2 to the one in ODST. Or the changes in Elites along the three games. No real explanation, they just did it for the looks. :Problem is, we can't possibly know which of the visual changes are canon. But yeah, just to be safe, that trivia statement could be changed. --Jugus 06:52, October 20, 2009 (UTC)